Pocket Watch Database

From the American Horology Archive:
Elgin Grade 164 Pocket Watch

Elgin National Watch Co.

Grade: 164

Mixed Run: "Elgin Nat'l. Watch Co." or "Father Time" or Private Label

Private Label(s) in Run:

A. Graves Co. - Memphis, Tenn.

What is a Private Label?
Manufacturer: Elgin
Manufacturer Location: Elgin, Illinois
Movement Serial Number: 6729365
Grade: 164
Variation: Mixed
Model: 2
Class: 1
Estimated Production Year: 1897
Run Quantity: 1,400
Grade/Model Run: 6 of 6
Grade/Model Total Production: 6,000
Variant Est. Production: 2,400 (18S-M2-17J-HNL-APT-MIXED)
Size: 18s
Jewels: 17j
Jewel Material: Ruby
Jewel Setting: Screw-Set
Movement Configuration: Hunting
Movement Finish: Nickel
Movement Inlay Color: Black
Movement Setting: Lever
Plate: Full Plate
Barrel: Going
Train: Quick
Regulator: Moseley
Hairspring: Breguet
Standard Dial Type: Double-Sunk
Adjusted: Yes
Adjusted to Position: Yes
Adjusted to Temperature: Yes
Railroad Grade: Yes
Railroad Grade Classification: Class C
U.S. Patents: 77078
Movement Markings: Elgin Natl. Watch Co.
Elgin, Ill. U.S.A.
17 Jewels
Adjusted.
Safety Pinoin
Data Research: 1896 Elgin Serial List
1904 Elgin Serial List
1915 Elgin Serial List
1927/1950 Elgin Serial List
Case: Various
Run ID: 2681.164G6.18S1486.182M182.H2002.L1165.17J141
Database Version: v52.219
Advanced Metrics
PWDB Absolute Rarity Index:
Scoped for Grade/Size/Model/Configuration
17.96
PWDB Relative Rarity Index:
Rarity within Manufacturer - Scoped for Grade/Size/Model/Configuration
6.92
Share of Production:
Share within Manufacturer - Scoped for Grade/Size/Model/Configuration
0.012%
Registry Population: 20 (1.43%)
Research Note: This run is designated in factory serial lists as Grade 164 [6728001-6730000]. Standard Grade 164 movements feature 17 Jewels. However, some movements early in the run were upgraded to 21 Jewels. It appears that ~6728001-6728600 (Quantity: 600) were likely upgraded to Father Time 21-Jewel movements while the rest of the run 6728601-6730000 (Quantity: 1,400) were 17-Jewel movements marked "Elgin Nat'l Watch Co." or marked for private labels. This run has now been split accordingly for the purposes of the database.

#6728312: Verified as Marked "Father Time" and "21 Jewels" [PWDB cranemaker].
#6728314: Reported as Marked "Father Time" and "21 Jewels."
#6728530: Reported as Marked "21 Jewels."
#6728567: Reported as Marked "Father Time" and "21 Jewels."
#6728585: Verified as Marked "Father Time" and "21 Jewels" [eBay #113348889155].
#6728713: Verified as Marked "Elgin Natl. Watch Co." and "17 Jewels" [eBay #202414044481, JH 2018-08-16].
#6728722: Verified as Marked "Elgin Natl. Watch Co." and "17 Jewels" [JH 2018-09-23].
#6728812: Verified as Private Label Marked "A. Graves - Memphis, Tenn." and "17 Jewels" [eBay #354556317993]
#6729471: Reported as Marked "Elgin Natl. Watch Co."

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Verification Reports for this Run

The following reports have been graciously submitted by dedicated members in reference to this production run. These reports are useful to verify data and track inaccuracies that require further research. Please note that reports may contain inaccurate information or assumptions that must be dilligently considered with other available sources.


cjbrem Supporter 499 · July 17, 2023

Serial Number 6728776 was reported as accurate.

Anonymous · May 3, 2023

Serial Number 6728931 was reported as accurate.

hawk613 Supporter 32 · October 15, 2021

Serial Number 6729471 was reported as inaccurate.

Note: This watch is for sale on eBay and is one of those
NOT upgraded to "Father Time" and is marked
"Elgin Natl. Watch Co." and "17 Jewels."
Curator Response: Thanks for the report. This information has been noted in the research notes for this run.
Changes since this report was submitted:
Jewels changed from 21j to 17j

Anonymous · January 17, 2019

Serial Number 6729695 was reported as accurate.

Changes since this report was submitted:
Jewels changed from 21j to 17j

Anonymous · September 9, 2018

Serial Number 6728713 was reported as accurate.

Changes since this report was submitted:
Jewels changed from 21j to 17j

otter46 Supporter 24 · September 3, 2018

Serial Number 6728713 was reported as inaccurate.

Note: 17jewels
Changes since this report was submitted:
Jewels changed from 21j to 17j

Anonymous · August 18, 2016

Serial Number 6728974 was reported as accurate.

Anonymous · October 10, 2015

Serial Number 6728716 was reported as accurate.

Anonymous · October 18, 2014

Serial Number 6729643 was reported as accurate.

Anonymous · September 21, 2014

Serial Number 6729119 was reported as accurate.

Anonymous · August 18, 2014

Serial Number 6729643 was reported as accurate.

Fretrocker 43 · February 23, 2014

Serial Number 6729255 was reported as accurate.

lewis23 Supporter 40 · November 7, 2013

Serial Number 6728628 was reported as accurate.

LeroyC 392 · June 5, 2013

Serial Number 6728628 was reported as accurate.

Anonymous · March 19, 2013

Serial Number 6729119 was reported as accurate.

Anonymous · May 5, 2012

Serial Number 6729559 was reported as accurate.

Elgin Grade 164 Pocket Watch